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is the only way of stabilizing debt. the sink guegle biggest driver medicare. so if we don't make those tough decisions now, all we've done is a european style kick the can down the road and, you know, it's tough to cut entitlements and it's tough to cap deductions. austerity doesn't have to look like just taxing your way out of it. if you want to not work, you just tax your way out of it. >> i think we have to remember that this is politics and not economics going on here. that's the most important thing i think people have to remember. and we know we want more revenue and cut spending. that's why we have the problem to begin with. you have to accept that issue. le politicians aren't willing to accept that issue yet. both are at extremes. if you accept they're both at exseee extre extremes, how did we raise revenue. because the politics, not because of economics, they will not raise marginal rates. >> although we have heard some people say they would go along with that. >> i agree. the center is actually saying that. but i think -- so if the democrats know that, which everybody knows, give o
is a percentage of gdp is 24%. it's projected to go substantially higher. do you know that medicare and medicaid didn't exist 50 years ago and they're now a quarter of the federal budget? >> i know. it was supposed to be supplemental. david walker was on the other day talking about obama care which is supposed to save us a trillion dollars and the actual cost, what it added the our entitlement is 12 trillion. just that we did in the last two years. or whenever it was. >> but in terms of where we are now in this negotiation, i believe that both sides in the final analysis want a deal and the compromise is in the revenue side for the president and potentially rates which i think he's serious on and real entitlement reform for the republicans and the american people, markets, business, confidence, the able to move forward in 2013 is all a function of doing both of the things you talk about, joe. having an agreement to avoid the debt, the fiscal cliff, and then having a down payment on actually getting the $4 trillion identified. >> howard dean is a deficit hawk. liberal, but he is a deficit hawk. h
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